Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

Thursday 2nd March, 2006
The Urban Dictionary mailer sent me an interesting definition this week - Credit Whore

The definition:

Credit Whore (CW) is someone that does something nice just so they can bring it to everyone's attention and get credit for it.Credit Whore is someone who puts money in tip jar and then shouts, "I just put a dollar in the tip jar".


This is very similar to the term I already use a lot, ASW - Attention Seeking Whore.

I've noticed a lot of 'Credit Whores' in the blogosphere recently, particularly in the Notes world. It seems that almost every day somebody comes up with an excuse for a "hey look at me" post or comment somewhere. This is becoming more and more frustrating to me and I've actually found myself tuning out and taking a step away from a community that used to be so nice.

#1 on my list of Credit Whores has to be the blog comment ASW. These spend most of their time posting comments on popular blogs that say 'i have some comments on this subject here'. When you click the link you find negligible content and just a bit of text that could have been posted on the original blog. This is a weak attempt at hijacking readers from other blogs. Ed's blog seems to suffer from this the most.

#2 Credit Whore has to be somebody who offers to do something 'for the community' but really it's a thinly veiled attempt at drawing attention to themselves or their company. Offering to host a blog or website for somebody  free of charge is a generous offer, but to put a big advert on it isn't really big generosity on your part this is purely just sponsored hosting which is available in many places.

Those who host blogs/pages on jaffacake.net will know what I mean. Almost all of these sites have no mention whatsoever of their hosting provider. They've all thanked me in their own way but I don't need big public recognition, that's not why I did it. I purely did it to offer an area to somebody who needed some server space.

I guess I may as well cut the crap and get to the point....Show & Tell Thursday.

A great idea in principle, but a big victim of the credit whores. Why the hell isn't there a single Show & Tell website where members of the community can share their experiences. When I enquired I was informed that it was mutually agreed that everybody would post their Show & Tell idea on their own website.

How is this of benefit to anybody? If I read your site, I see your content anyway on a daily basis. If I don't read your site, I'll never see it.

What if I don't have a website? Am I obliged to email it to Bruce Elgort?

How do I find other Show & Tell posts I may have missed? I'm told somebody was trying to design an aggregator that will somehow use RSS to inject the content into a single site/feed. Again...what if I don't have a website. Isn't all this just a workaround to allow the credit whores to get what they want?

What if I subscribe to the show & tell RSS feed and to the credit whore's site? Won't all the entries appear in my RSS twice?

Over a week ago I designed a Show & Tell prototype website and showed it to a couple of the show & tell guys. It's not rocket science and only intended as a demo, just a mail enabled blog. If somebody has an idea they want to share, they can simply just email it in and it will appear on the site. If they're insistent on being a Credit Whore they can simply email a summary and a link to the full article on their own site.

This would offer a single show & tell site, open to all on which anybody could post. On top of that, people could subscribe to an RSS feed that would contain all the posted ideas. What could be easier and better for the community?

To top it off, one of the guys (I don't name names) said it was a good workaround to the problem and then proceeded to investigate hosting it for himself with a banner ad for his company...not quite the result I wanted to get across.

Come on guys, if this Show & Tell thing is really for the community then make it so. Create an easy central point where we can read the posts and don't lock all the content into your own sites and make us trawl Google blog search and Technorati looking for it. If you want to share an idea with the community then do that, don't just use it to draw attention to yourself.

If I'm wrong, then please tell me I'm wrong and how the situation is different to my perception but if you do have a comment, please post it here and don't just trackback to your own site ;-)

  1. 1) Nathan T. Freeman Said: (02/03/2006 14:16:24 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Ben, do you just whine like this about everything? This is the same kinda noise I heard from you about Blogsphere a few weeks back. If you don't like what people are doing, then COMPETE or CONTRIBUTE. Turn your prototype into a real service. I bet someone like Rich will follow on and set up an aggregator that emails your site automatically.

    If you just want to call everyone that wants to post giant pieces of free demo code to the world at large a "Credit Whore"... well you just come off as a jerk.

  2. 2) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 14:48:47 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Nathan,

    I did CONTRIBUTE. My prototype was offered as a real service and fell upon completely deaf ears. After another week of zero progress I decided to go public with this post.

    I think your word "COMPETE" says it all. This isn't a competition, it isn't a game...that's where it all goes wrong. Competition is what leads to about a dozen different 'central' Notes blogrolls which helps peopne in no way whatsoever.

    We're supposed to help each other aren't we? Not make it more confusing.

  3. 3) Jamie Price Said: (02/03/2006 15:00:22 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    I'm not going to comment either way on the tone of this post, but rather offer an alternate viewpoint.

    What if the community's posting of code on our own sites (and for the record I have not posted anything of use to the community) is not necessarily for just credit and a hit to our own blog? What if we simply are too lazy to even copy and paste comments, that we have already posted, to a comment field on another one?

    For me, at least, I just enjoy being part of a community such as this. I also like getting new ideas and help from anywhere I can get them. Yes, one site would be cool, but not having one doesn't bother me. Perhaps I'm just taking a 'utopian' view of what others have done in the past and seeing their actions as having the best intentions.

  4. 4) Greyhawk68 Said: (02/03/2006 15:05:38 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Hi Ben,

    I think you're missing the true spirit that was intended here. Show-N-Tell Thursday was meant simply as a way for us as a community to try to show good things that could be done with Domino. Nothing more.

    Some people just thought that there was too much bitching and such going on, and wanted to see a positive force.

    Now I agree, people that just trackback with no discernable content are whores and I'm not fond of that, but if someone writes a huge diatribe, I don't think that comments are the best place for that.

    Anyway, if all you want are Show-N-Tell Thursday posts, simply subscribe to the Technorati feed for that tag. In my opinoin it's the best way. Also, I do know that aggregators are in the works to have a nice centralized place too.

    Now why I think this does deserve to stay on people's personal blogs is simply because I as a blogger want the record of all the stuff I've posted. I post things so I can go back later and see what I've done. Kind of a history if you will. It's just easier to have it at my own site than to have to search all over for it.

    As for community sites, it's been tried before and hasn't really taken off. LNDCentral.com, which I was a huge proponent of, kind of fell by the wayside... It's unfortunate, but as bloggers, people want to keep their own content up-to-date first. Then I find that many people are too busy to contribute elsewhere in a meaningful manner, myself included.

    So I think you are missing the spirit here. SnTT is simply a way for us to share some tips, tricks, code and stories that illustrate why we love Notes and Domino. It's not meant in any way as a competition.

    And if you want to contribute, detail it here and release it here. Just running it by a few folks behind the scenes doesn't allow the rest of us the ability to check it out and give you our thoughts...

    Anyway, here's hoping you continue to join in on this discussion. Posting good stuff hardly makes any of us a whore.

    -Grey

  5. 5) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 15:23:55 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @3 - "What if we simply are too lazy to even copy and paste comments, that we have already posted, to a comment field on another one?"

    If you can copy paste a URL, you can copy paste the content. There are times that people really expand upon a topic and clicking through is very valuable, I was purely pointing to those times where 'you find negligible content and just a bit of text that could have been posted on the original blog'.

    @4 - I thought I understood the true spirit of it all and was very supportive of Bruce & Co. I even did my own Show & Tell last week. My frustration is that I'm missing out on loads of great content simply because it's posted on blogs I don't read for whatever reason.

    It's likely that Show & Tell contributors will want a record on their own blog for it but the real content could be on the community site and a personal blog entry could link to that. Without this setup, if a blog closes or changes URL then the content is lost which makes any historical record a little pointless.

    Under my proposal, we'd end up with a site a lot like that written by Alan Lepofsky. { Link } An excellent central of Notes/Domino Hints & Tips. As it is, we end up with a load of Notes/Domino posts scattered randomly around the blogosphere...we had that before.

  6. 6) Richard Shergold Said: (02/03/2006 15:28:56 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Ben, you might be right but I think calling the people who have spent time and effort submitting tips "Credit Whores" is a little over the top! :-)

  7. 7) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 15:34:24 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @6 - The guy in the definition above put a dollar in the tip jar...his own money.

    I guess at the end of the day, some people need a public audience in order to do something and others are just happy with a private achievement.

    I guess the word I'm after is 'selfless' { Link }

  8. 8) Richard Shergold Said: (02/03/2006 15:39:06 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    But wouldn't that (private achievement) be Don't Show-N-Don't Tell Thursday rather than Show-N-Tell Thursday ?? :-)

  9. 9) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 15:58:20 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @8 - A true selfless act would be a website where people post this content with no credit to the author whatsoever. I'm not expecting that, even journalists who write commercially don't do so without a credit, but to only write it on your own publication just doesn't work for me in my head.

    Many people have written in publications like e-Pro which, whilst they had commercial interest, were a great contribution to the community but you didn't see Libby writing a 2 line article saying Rocky wrote this or Bruce wrote that and a URL link - they published full original content articles.

    Contributors were more than welcome to reference it in their blog, but the content was on the original site where subscribers could read it and share it's value.

    Bruce does great work with the TakingNotes podcasts. He doesn't link to podcasts on other peoples sites, he hosts them all in one place where they're easy to find...it just works. People who take part in the podcasts blog that they're in it, but they don't host the content themselves.

    People selflessly moderate forums on lotususergroup.org for a week at a time and mention that on their blog, but lotususergroup host the content on their own forums. This way all the value can be kept in one place.

    Show & Tell Thursdays is such a good idea, it's just completely lost amongst the weight of other posts in the blogosphere. It needs a proper focal point that anybody in the community can use...not just people who have a technorati indexed blog.

  10. 10) Greyhawk68 Said: (02/03/2006 16:42:28 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Well, it's always been a plan to have an aggregated feed of all Show-N-Tell posts, so that's really what you are after right? Is a feed good enough? Does it really have to be a site?

    And whats wrong also with subscribing to the Technorati feed? I guess I don't see what's missing other than another site...

    -Grey

  11. 11) Richard Schwartz Said: (02/03/2006 16:51:15 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    The aggregator/feeder dedicated to Show&Tell Thursday would be up already if my laptop hadn't died a couple of weeks ago. Sheepishly, I have to admit that the work I was doing on it was not backed up, and other catch-up work that resulted from that crash has had to take priority over my re-doing it.

    I won't be hosting it, by the way. I don't have the bandwidth. Someone else will, and if they choose to post a small credit for themselves, I won't object. I haven't decided whether or not to post a credit for myself. I expect, though, that since the majority of the usage will be through pulling RSS feeds, that whatever whoring is going on will be totally invisible to most users most of the time.

    As to whether the posts from blogs you already subscribe to will show up twice, that's entirely up to your RSS reader software. Well, mostly. The outbound feed will have the original permalink URLs in it, presuming that I can actually pull them out of the original feeds unambiguously, that is. The feed will not be directing users to the aggregator site. It will be directing users to the original posters' sites. If your RSS reader is smart enough to organize articles by unique permalink regardless of what feed they came in from, then you won't see duplicates.

    As for your desire to see more selfless acts, that's a great ideal, but IMHO calling other people whores for not living up to your ideal is pretty doggone close to your saying "Hey, folks, look at me! I'm selfless, and selfless is superior, so I'm superior!" I don't believe that's your intent, of course, but I think you have to admit that it can be taken that way.

    Meanwhile, there are those of us who seek to find the balance between selflessness and self-promotion. It's an ever-changing balance, my friend, and it isn't easy to find. I've been seeking it in the Lotus business for 13 years. I used to be the guy whose posts on Usenet and various mailing lists had a .sig that said "Ask me about Lotus Notes!". Lots of people did, and I answereed lots of questions. Over years, thousands of posts, and many personal email threads as well resulting from that .sgi, I picked up two paying customers who have collectively paid me for about a month of my time.

    I'd love to be as selfless as you, but I have a business to run and a family to feed, so excuse me! Excuse me if I help justify my level of contribution to the community by sometimes including a small amount of marketing. I stopped using that .sig a long time ago. I still participate in several public mailing lists and forums, and I still get personal emails asking for help, and I always respond by asking people to post their questions publicly. That's partly because I can't afford to be selfless, and it's also because if my answer is wrong and it's posted on a public forum the odds are that someone will correct me and I'll learn something.

    As for my other whoring activities, I will in fact link from comments back to my own blog(s) on occasion for a variety of reasons. One is that I do want people to read my blog. There's no denying that, and I'm not in any way ashamed of it at all. You can call me a whore or anything you want, and you can trust me on this: I don't care. I blog for several reasons, and not all of them are selfless.

    Another reason, though, is that the constraints of comment forms on most blogs are often too limiting for what I want to say. You, for example, don't allow HTML. There's good reason for that, I know, but it means I can't express myself as fully as I can in my own blog. Some of the most frequently hit pages in my blog are ones that I or someone else has linked in a post on the notes.net forums, and they are much more readable with the formatting that I can do in my blog than they would have been if I had just posted directly.

    Another reason that I might post a link is that the overlap of any given blog's audience with my own is not perfect. If I have something that I consider significant to say, I may want my audience to see it, too. The most convenient way for me to do that is to post it in my blog and do a trackback to the blog I'm commenting on. If the blog doesn't support trackbacks, then I'll do a comment with a link.

    I could go on, but I've probably written so much now that I've just convinced some folks that I'm just seeking attention by posting here.

  12. 12) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 16:53:36 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    10 - At risk of repeating myself, a feed is just a snapshot and it sends the last x posts on a topic in a given time period. Yes, potentially the feed content could be spewed out onto a web page but it wouldn't capture the content.

    If the posts are put on a central website they'll be on one site, one feed, one search engine. Searching the site will search all the content...you just can't do that with an aggregated feed.

    I remember a post for a few weeks ago on a specific topic. Who posted it and where? I haven't a clue and there's nowhere I can search for it.

    Say I wanna tell the UK user group about Show & Tell. First I tell them about it, then I have to tell them I haven't got an address for it...they have to go to Technorati. Then I have to explain what Technorati is, for some I might even have to explain what a blog is.

    Am I making sense?

  13. 13) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 17:11:51 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @11 -

    Aggregator - My concern with the aggregator is that nobody will be able to search historic posts or see a list of posts by date, unless they were subscribed to the feed at the time and it's still in their RSS reader. Without a central searchable store of the content, then it all has a TTL value as long as the RSS feed. Also, what if people don't have a blog but would like to contribute?

    Comment Whore - Not something I'd ever accuse you of. You always trackback to plenty of content value such as the recent post about search results counts for "exchange sucks" etc. If you need to post pictures and other rich content it's the only way...it's the unnecessary ones that truly annoy.

    Selflessness - I recognise that for consultants it is a thin line between income and freebies. I'm happy to say that those freebies do pay off at times though. My employer has helped pay salaries for no less than 5 consulant bloggers as a result of my recognition for what they do for the community.

    For us full time PAYE guys there is no line to draw, anything we share in the community is off our own backs and doesn't conflict with our business. We don't have expense accounts, billable hours or budgets to stick to; we just do what we can when we can.

    I'm not saying EVERYONE in the community is a credit whore and that EVERYONE is bad, but I am saying that in the context of sntt (as I understand it's now called according to some post I found via Technorati) it's not as selfless as it needs to be in order to be a true community success.

  14. 14) Bruce Elgort Said: (02/03/2006 17:16:45 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Two weeks new

    Ben,

    SNTT's is only 3 weeks old. It has only just begun. I remember when we first started OpenNTF - ummmmmm like 5 years ago. Some things take time. Let's see how it evolves.

    Volker suggested an even better idea which would be to have a resource (site) that displays clear examples of using Notes/Domino to create collaborative applications. Do you know of such a site? Maybe SNTT will be the starting point of something like this.

    We have only just begun.....

    Bruce "Credit Whore" Elgort

  15. 15) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 17:23:14 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @14 - Precisely my point...where would openNTF be if all the apps were scattered about all over the web and not on one site?

  16. 16) Christopher Byrne Said: (02/03/2006 17:25:55 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Wow Ben, I am not sure how to look at this. One site for all content is not, in my opinion, the way to go. If we want to drive Google and visibility, one site is counterintuitive.

    I started my blog because I got tired of giving the "selfless" content away on Notes.net and not even getting a thank you in most cases, or even an ackowledgement if they solved their problem/question. I am still giving away information for free, but on my terms and my site. It is much easier to point people there to see what I am doing/writing/saying then to point them to a generic site. But in fact, I do both...

    In all of the SNTT posts I have seen, I have yet to see one that smacks of 'credit whoring'...

  17. 17) Greyhawk68 Said: (02/03/2006 17:30:34 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @12 Ben, you could send them to { Link } as that would point to a vast majority of the posts.

    I would imagine you could even use google or icerocket to search for "show-n-tell thursday." Search tools are a wonderful thing :-)

    Now I don't think that having a nice community site like that is a bad idea. It's a good one actually, but calling everyone Credit Whores is not exactly the best way to go about getting there...

    And besides, I don't get paid for my blog, so I actually prefer to be called "Credit Slut" rather than "Credit Whore" :-)

    -Grey

  18. 18) Volker Weber Said: (02/03/2006 18:01:25 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    openNTF indeed is a wonderful example what you can achieve if you join forces.

    What the community misses is a news site that everybody contributes to. Something I call "slashDomino".

    The interesting thing is: It already exists. It is open. Everybody can use it. But nobody does. { Link }

  19. 19) Richard Schwartz Said: (02/03/2006 18:02:22 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @13: Aggregator... if all we cared about was echoing the feeds, we'd be done. We are definitely keeping a central copy and building a web interface that will be indexed, searchable, etc. How effective that will be... well, that will be dependent on whether the individual feeds have full content or not.

    Anyhow, if someone wants to start a central site where anyone can post tips, regardless of whether or not they have their own blog, why that's a fine idea. I'm all for it.

  20. 20) Rock Said: (02/03/2006 18:26:35 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Well, I broke your rule - I responded on my own blog, mainly cause I was long-winded and I went off on a tangent as well. So sue me. ;)

    { Link }

    I even explain why I do this on occasion.

    You can choose to follow it - or not. Just wanted to put in my $.05 (inflation and all).

    --Rock

  21. 21) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 18:30:30 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @20 - Rock...your linked entry doesn't display in my browser properly. I'd love to read it, can you email it to me or something?

  22. 22) Volker Weber Said: (02/03/2006 18:41:17 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Sorry to disagree, Richard. Nobody needs to build anything. It is all already there.

    Also, nobody needs to design their website. Just use projectDX and its new designs. They are all wonderful.

  23. 23) Bruce Elgort Said: (02/03/2006 18:47:03 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Amen vowe

    Vowe is spot on.

  24. 24) Richard Schwartz Said: (02/03/2006 18:49:46 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Rock's post displays fine for me. In both IE and Firefox, very big window or very small window.

  25. 25) Ben Rose Said: (02/03/2006 18:53:06 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @24 - Lucky you, it's always been an issue to me on many Blogsphere sites. Text just vanishes and appears randomly as I scroll up and down the page. Bruce seems to be one of the few to have fixed the problem. I get the problem in IE, mainly on Win2k platform (company standard). But I won't go there...see @1

    I've read it now...View Source to the rescue :)

  26. 26) Richard Schwartz Said: (02/03/2006 19:52:11 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @22 Vowe: We are building an aggregation site so that the posts can be created on individuals' personal blogs if that is where they want them. It's their right, and it benefits the community in the ways that Rocky explained in his post. If someone wants to put up a DX site for other people to post their contributions in a central location, we'll be happy to aggregate from there, too.

    @25: I've seen that on many blogsphere blogs myself, my own included. I do not see it on Rocky's right now. I scrolled around trying to make text disappear, but it didn't. Must be the IE version, I guess.

  27. 27) Volker Weber Said: (02/03/2006 19:56:19 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Good luck, Richard. I take it you will also aggregate all comments and crosslink them. Do you plan to make deep copies or how do you make sure, you keep stuff permanent? If so, how will later edits be reflected when those posts need updates. And do all people have to switch from (c) to CC?

  28. 28) Dan Soares Said: (02/03/2006 20:39:24 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Lets see... I religiously follow all the Lotus Notes Domino blogs via RSS and I visit others that don't subscribe to RSS. I am on the L-Notes list, I visit Search Domino for tips and OpenNTF for tips and templates. I'm also at Notes.Net for tips and I get some from DeveloperWOrks too.

    Hmmm.. not much time to put all those tips into practice today... Perhaps tomorrow after I visit OpennTF, Notes.Net, Technorati, SearchDomino ...

    :) We have always had this issue of multiple sites where people post tips since the days of the Watercooler and LDN and L-Notes etc... Maybe we'll have a solution one of these days!

    Dan

  29. 29) Richard Schwartz Said: (02/03/2006 20:39:28 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Thanks, Volker. If there are comment feeds by category from any given blog, I could aggregate them. No problem. Nobody has to do anything at all to participate in this other than publish a feed. No assumption of any rights beyond the fact that what is in the feed can be stored and repeated as-is.

    If somebody else wants to pull in the consolidated feed from the aggregator site and take deep copies into a wiki or some other permanent store, that's fine by me... so long as all the individual posters grant the rights. I don't want to go there.

    The stated intention of the people who came up with this idea is that content comes from many sources and it lives on the sites belonging to those sources. I will honor that intention. No deep copies will be made. No permanent storage of anything other than the data pulled from the published feed. Edits may or may not be reflected, depending on whether feeds are updated in a way that my code recognizes as an edit. If my code needs tweaking to do that better, it can be tweaked.

  30. 30) chris Bordeleau Said: (02/03/2006 20:56:29 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    I do post track backs and repost content on my blog... not to get personal attention but because of the audience I am serving is not going to most of the other blogs and reading them or keeping up with the news...

    I work for a site with 64 different institutions some of which run Notes & Domino... Most of these sites a very understaffed. Their Notes Admin is also the network admin, system admin and many times the CIO... for sites with 2000-6000 users... They do not have time to scour out news. I support them so I feel it is my duty to keep up with the news and put information in one place where they can find it that I think is important. I also use email for some things but if I want to keep the information out there and permanent I blog on it...

  31. 31) Ben Langhinrichs Said: (02/03/2006 22:51:18 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Not to be contrary, although this post so demands it, but what exactly is wrong with being a credit whore? There is another name for it, "capitalist", and I don't apologize for being one. In fact, I revel in it.

    Anyway, as I wrote on Rocky's blog because I happened to get there first...

    Interesting point. As I mentioned to Rocky off-line, I am working on a site (at { Link } if you want to know) that will allow creation of Show and Tell Thursday posts by anybody. There will be a minimal level of review, meaning I am taking on the thankless job of deleting spam, and we will likely have some mechanism to prevent robot spam (Declan had a good post about this, I think). The goal will be to combine the aggregator and the contributor parts on one site that will, I hope, do better than Technorati, but will also allow a rich editing experience so that people can post images or screencams or whatever.

    Of course, since I am not just an ASW, but a MGW/RNC (money grubbing whore/raw naked capitalist), I plan to use CoexEdit on the site as the facilitator of that rich editing experience and as a blatant play for the minds and souls of the Domino community. (I might as well be up front about it.)

    Of course, it is quite likely my site will go the way of LNDCentral, which I both contributed to and supported. Just as many things we all try fail. We just keep getting up and trying again, whether we are in it for the credit or the money (I like both).

    I do have a question for you, Ben. Do you think the waitress who gets the dollar in the tip jar appreciates it more or the sanctimonious smirk on the face of the guy who doesn't contribute, or doesn't contribute so much? Sometimes, personal self interest is an excellent motivator. I certainly like all the great tips that have been posted so far for Show and Tell Thursday, no matter what the credit whoring motives may have been.

  32. 32) Sean Cull Said: (02/03/2006 22:51:19 GMT) Gravatar Image
    I suppose the other extreme is to lock down a <community>

    so that relatively few people have access to the pooled knowledge - { Link } and you act as gatekeeper.

    just an observation.

    Sean

  33. 33) Sean Cull Said: (02/03/2006 22:52:54 GMT) Gravatar Image
    oops - link needs www. first

    { Link }

  34. 34) Laurette Rynne Said: (02/03/2006 22:54:40 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    This is really such an interesting topic, and I give Ben credit ;) for being quite brave about bringing it up. I can see Ben's point of view, but I can also see the side of those accused of "credit whoring".

    I understand Ben's frustration of having a suggestion (which is a good one) which has been ignored. Even with the www.dominoblogs.com site, which has been really well received, there has been a bit of contention over how to proceed. It can sometimes seem in the community that those who "speak" loudest (or first) "win", even if there are better ideas coming through.

    That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with people trying to promote their own blogs - it's always nice to feel like people are reading your site, and recognise the work you have done. I think so many of us work in places where you don't often get recognition for the cool work you have done, and so it's great to have your peers acknowledge you.

    But maybe "community efforts" should be a little more "community" than personal. For one thing, I like that blogs are, well, blogs. Personal comment and opinion, even if some of the content is technical. It helps you to get a sense of a person, even if you can't meet them in person.

    I think technical solutions and tips are probably better suited for a site where people can go to search for technical answers, or to question the authors of the solution/tip. This is what notes.net used to be and this worked great for years - still does for many. Generally if I'm looking for a solution to a problem, I will use google, then search notes.net. I don't go searching through blogs unless I can remember seeing something particular in the past, and I have had mixed results finding the post again - codestore & lotusgeek are the two I have had the greatest success with. When you read blogs through an RSS reader it's very difficult to remember where you found the information, as you don't see the site branding etc. This could be where a single site could be a better solution than blogs.

    For the record, my biggest problem with SnTT is the Thursday part of it...while it's a great idea to encourage non-technical posters to become technical, limiting to a particular day is a little restrictive, and guilt-inducing to those of us who want to be part of the community but just don't had time to do a detailed technical post each week.

  35. 35) Ben Langhinrichs Said: (02/03/2006 23:00:17 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Laurette - I have to agree about the Thursday part. I often post tips and technical posts, but it is hard to be held to an arbitrary day. That is partly why I am calling my site Show-N-Tell.Us as it doesn't mention the day if that falls by the wayside. The plan is to welcome posts any day of the week from anybody who wants to post them, plus hopefully aggregate at least links to other sites with such posts. We will see.

  36. 36) Ethann Castell Said: (02/03/2006 23:10:41 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    This community is great ! This community is also great at making a big fuss about nothing. So some people are posting less-than-useful trackbacks. So what ? Just get on with your life.

    "I guess at the end of the day, some people need a public audience in order to do something and others are just happy with a private achievement.

    I guess the word I'm after is 'selfless'"

    If you want to be selfless then that’s fine. But do you really expect others to be selfless just because you are uncomfortable with their desire or efforts with self-promotion and generally being more "out there".

    There are some great instances of shameless self-promotion in this community. If you took a look at the entry for Lotus Notes on Wikipedia about 6 months ago you would have noticed only about 5 links. Four of them went to IBM sites and one went to a site where you could purchase the authors (very high profile in the community) Domino 6 book. Was this selfless or in keeping with the spirit of Wikipedia ? Definitely not. In fact this was beyond self promotion, it was just plain commerce. But at least on Wikipedia you can modify the entry.

    That's my self promotion for the day done. I probably should have done a trackback but it's a bit too long to post on <a href=”{ Link } own site</a> :-)

  37. 37) Bruce Elgort Said: (02/03/2006 23:33:43 GMT) Gravatar Image
    ©Laurrette

    On the topic of having to post every Thursday....

    I didn't have time this week for a SNTT so I didn't :-)

    Many others however did.

  38. 38) Bruce Elgort Said: (02/03/2006 23:37:19 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @Ben and all,

    The whole idea was simply to get people to post some new content about things that they done with Notes/Domino. Who cares if it's not Thursday. My posts weren't techie tips but customer application stories. What I did with the technology to solve a problem.

    :-) Let me know how I can help with your new site - you too Laurrette

  39. 39) John Head Said: (02/03/2006 23:57:44 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Ben L - you do realize that the folks who came up with show and tell tuesday already have a site underway and want to use that logo for it correct? I applaud people doing something on their own, but this really crosses a boundry here.

  40. 40) Rock Said: (03/03/2006 00:09:02 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @Laurette and Ben L. - Thursday was an arbitrary day. The reason a singular day was chosen was this: it gives each of us a "goal" or milestone to shoot for. I know that there are procrastinators amongst us (present company included) and I have a backlog of geek posts that wait because I keep saying "I'll get around to it." SnTT gives us a milestone to shoot for - "Hey, this is a kewl trick - think I'll post it for SnTT", that type of thing.

    Now I tend to post techie stories all the time, and I know others will too. SnTT isn't really for them - it is more for bloggers like, I dunno, Bruce or Jess or whomever, those bloggers who tend to not post that many technical posts. Bruce has a ton of kewl stuff to share (and he has begun with SnTT). Jess has kewl stuff to share too, but has had Don do some as well. Bob Balaban shared a great article on my blog last week. Newbs has shared a couple so far, and to get him to post at all in itself is a miracle ;)

    I mention all of this because it proves that SnTT is doing what I had hoped it would - it is encouraging a wider audience to share their vast knowledge, and it gives them a focal point to do so.

    Does that make it more clear?

    --Rock

  41. 41) Ben Rose Said: (03/03/2006 00:10:58 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @31 To answer your question:

    Don't give me that. She don't

    make enough money, she can quit.

  42. 42) Rock Said: (03/03/2006 00:12:35 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @John - it absolutely does NOT cross any boundary. No-one "owns" SnTT, nor does anyone "own" any site that supports it therein. I think that the community can decide what works best - and if there are competing concepts/sites/ideas to support SnTT, then the community can decide what works for them.

    But what I want to make very clear is that no-one should be chastised for wanting to create an solution to help the greater good; and I applaud EVERYONE who is putting forth an effort in that regard.

    --Rock

  43. 43) Rock Said: (03/03/2006 00:14:24 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @41 Ben - WTH does your post mean? "she can quit" - quit her waitress job - why? I may be slow, but I need more context for your comment...

    --Rock

  44. 44) Laurette Rynne Said: (03/03/2006 00:16:43 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @Bruce - yeah, I think that's more my own guilt at not getting organised and posting many of the technical things I've thought about!

    I do agree that this is a bit of a storm in a teacup. I guess the more information is out there, the better the community will be serviced - that's the whole idea of the internet (and collaboration) anyway!

    In some ways, I think the fact that people are enthusisatic about it all is great - there is definitely a buzz in the community post-Lotusphere and that's got to be good for all of us.

  45. 45) Ben Rose Said: (03/03/2006 00:19:04 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @43 - These ladies aren't starvin to death. They make minimum wage. When I worked for minimum wage, I wasn't lucky enough to have a job that society deemed tipworthy.

  46. 46) Rock Said: (03/03/2006 00:28:37 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @Ben - in the US waitress make less than minimum wage - the going rate is $2.10/hour. Tips are taxed at 8% of your receipts for your shift - so if you had $1000 worth of receipts in a shift, you were going to be taxed for $80 worth of tips, whether you actually made that amount or not.

    --Rock

  47. 47) Ben Rose Said: (03/03/2006 00:38:46 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @46 - Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get, and make a living on. The reason is because of tips.

  48. 48) Ben Rose Said: (03/03/2006 01:33:27 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @46 - Sorry Rock, I was re-enacting the first scene from Reservoir Dogs. { Link }

    Start from:

    MR. WHITE

    Uh-uh. I don't tip.

  49. 49) Ben Langhinrichs Said: (03/03/2006 03:39:07 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Oh my, I do enjoy a good dustup over nothing. It is kind of fun to see everybody work up in a lather over the deeply disturbing act of... giving away helpful tips and stories for free. Man, there sure is a lot to get angry about that.

    **Warning: Ironic comment for those helplessly unable to distinguish**

    But you know what really gets to me. Mother Teresa! Sure, you think she gave her life selflessly in service to the poor and helpless, but talk about the ultimate Credit Whore. She is known the whole world over by her first name.

    **End of ironic comment**

    Now, I am not comparing what we are doing to Mother Teresa, but I do think that giving people a bunch of grief because they are not selfless enough is ridiculous. Go read Atlas Shrugged. Or not. I am officially walking out of the restaurant without leaving a tip, Ben R. I think you started out with one moderately good point and got carried away. Besides this ridiculously long thread, I hope everybody ignores this particular point of view and keeps posting valuable tips for the community without angst over their selflessness or lack of same. I could personally give a damn whether they are in it for the fame and fortune or for the good of humanity or even just to impress Rocky. I'm in it for the fame and fortune.

    As a side note, another reason people post a link to their own sites is so that when they think better of a post such as this, they can modify it or remove it, unlike this wwhich I will leave for posterity no matter how I regret it.

  50. 50) Ben Langhinrichs Said: (03/03/2006 03:52:59 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    See, there you go. A typo, and I can never fix it. Sigh!

  51. 51) Nathan T. Freeman Said: (03/03/2006 08:58:13 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Wow, did Ben L. just reference Atlas Shrugged!??!

    /me is is stunned.

    Mr. Rose, your comments about waitresses just closed the book for me. I think divorce might have made you a bit more bitter than you think.

  52. 52) Ben Rose Said: (03/03/2006 09:41:45 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @52 - I think you should read @48 and realise that none of those opinions were mine :-D

    Although I do agree with the McDonalds reference in the same scene that I didn't quote.

  53. 53) Ben Langhinrichs Said: (03/03/2006 12:24:47 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    @52 - Having read the scene, I understand what you were doing, but it was pretty confusing when you first started in on it.

    @51 - One of my favorite books. Why, does it explain a lot about me?

  54. 54) Giulio Said: (10/03/2006 06:22:34 GMT) Gravatar Image
    Show & Tell Thursday - Credit Whore

    Ben,

    I haven't read the entire blog on this topic. But from all appearances the concept of blogging is all about "look at me" in some way, be it a credit whore or an ASW or whatever. We all learn it from infants. We constantly seek approval of our peers be it parents or other developers. I suppose some of us never grow up. I have to plead guilty to being an ASW to some degree. But I understand you comments about taking an idea and then just using to get traffic rather than genuinely sharing it from an independant site. But in the end if its good and it's free, who cares ? That's what FeedDemon or FeedReader helps me gather anyway.

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